X-Git-Url: http://git.vanrenterghem.biz/git.ikiwiki.info.git/blobdiff_plain/eea52bccc967890c89cc9f87b16844a0a87ce5dc..e2244e67236a53a4ed5aba83b33c53e35ebc5efd:/doc/plugins/contrib/po.mdwn diff --git a/doc/plugins/contrib/po.mdwn b/doc/plugins/contrib/po.mdwn index 06d491d01..0fd06cb81 100644 --- a/doc/plugins/contrib/po.mdwn +++ b/doc/plugins/contrib/po.mdwn @@ -3,9 +3,11 @@ translated with gettext, using [po4a](http://po4a.alioth.debian.org/). More information: -* It can be found in my "po" branch on http://repo.or.cz/w/ikiwiki/intrigeri.git -* It involves adding three hooks to ikiwiki core. -* It is documented (including TODO and plans for next work steps) in `doc/plugins/po.mdwn`, which can be found in the same branch. +* It can be found in my "po" branch: + `git clone git://gaffer.ptitcanardnoir.org/ikiwiki.git` +* It is self-contained, *i.e.* it does not modify ikiwiki core at all. +* It is documented (including TODO and plans for next work steps) in + `doc/plugins/po.mdwn`, which can be found in the same branch. * No public demo site is available so far, I'm working on this. My plan is to get this plugin clean enough to be included in ikiwiki. @@ -14,3 +16,147 @@ The current version is a proof-of-concept, mature enough for me to dare submitti but I'm prepared to hear various helpful remarks, and to rewrite parts of it as needed. Any thoughts on this? + +> Well, I think it's pretty stunning what you've done here. Seems very +> complete and well thought out. I have not read the code in great detail +> yet. +> +> Just using po files is an approach I've never seen tried with a wiki. I +> suspect it will work better for some wikis than others. For wikis that +> just want translations that match the master language as closely as +> possible and don't wander off and diverge, it seems perfect. (But what happens +> if someone edits the Discussion page of a translated page?) +> +> Please keep me posted, when you get closer to having all issues solved +> and ready for merging I can do a review and hopefully help with the +> security items you listed. --[[Joey]] + +>> Thanks a lot for your quick review, it's reassuring to hear such nice words +>> from you. I did not want to design and write a full translation system, when +>> tools such as gettext/po4a already have all the needed functionality, for cases +>> where the master/slave languages paradigm fits. +>> Integrating these tools into ikiwiki plugin system was a pleasure. +>> +>> I'll tell you when I'm ready for merging, but in the meantime, +>> I'd like you to review the changes I did to the core (3 added hooks). +>> Can you please do this? If not, I'll go on and hope I'm not going to far in +>> the wrong direction. +>> +>>> Sure.. I'm not completly happy with any of the hooks since they're very +>>> special purpose, and also since `run_hooks` is not the best interface +>>> for a hook that modifies a variable, where only the last hook run will +>>> actually do anything. It might be better to just wrap +>>> `targetpage`, `bestlink`, and `beautify_urlpath`. But, I noticed +>>> the other day that such wrappers around exported functions are only visible by +>>> plugins loaded after the plugin that defines them. +>>> +>>> Update: Take a look at the new "Function overriding" section of +>>> [[plugins/write]]. I think you can just inject wrappers about a few ikiwiki +>>> functions, rather than adding hooks. The `inject` function is pretty +>>> insane^Wlow level, but seems to work great. --[[Joey]] +>>> +>>>> Thanks a lot, it seems to be a nice interface for what I was trying to achieve. +>>>> I may be forced to wait two long weeks before I have a chance to confirm +>>>> this. Stay tuned. --[[intrigeri]] +>>>> +>>>>> I've updated the plugin to use `inject`. It is now fully self-contained, +>>>>> and does not modify the core anymore. --[[intrigeri]] +>> +>> The Discussion pages issue is something I am not sure about yet. But I will +>> probably decide that "slave" pages, being only translations, don't deserve +>> a discussion page: the discussion should happen in the language in which the +>> pages are written for real, which is the "master" one. --[[intrigeri]] +>> +>> I think that's a good decision, you don't want to translate discussion, +>> and if the discussion page turns out multilingual, well, se la vi. ;-) +>> +>> Relatedly, what happens if a translated page has a broken link, and you +>> click on it to edit it? Seems you'd first have to create a master page +>> and could only then translate it, right? I wonder if this will be clear +>> though to the user. +>> +>>> Right: a broken link points to the URL that allows to create +>>> a page that can either be a new master page or a non-translatable +>>> page, depending on `po_translatable_pages` value. The best +>>> solution I can thing of is to use [[plugins/edittemplate]] to +>>> insert something like "Warning: this is a master page, that must +>>> be written in $MASTER_LANGUAGE" into newly created master pages, +>>> and maybe another warning message on newly created +>>> non-translatable pages. It seems quite doable to me, but in order +>>> to avoid breaking existing functionality, it implies to hack a bit +>>> [[plugins/edittemplate]] so that multiple templates can be +>>> inserted at page creation time. [[--intrigeri]] +>> +>> And also, is there any way to start a translation of a page into a new +>> lanauge using the web interface? +>> +>>> When a new language is added to `po_slave_languages`, a rebuild is +>>> triggered, and all missing PO files are created and checked into +>>> VCS. An unpriviledged wiki user can not add a new language to +>>> `po_slave_languages`, though. One could think of adding the needed +>>> interface to translate a page into a yet-unsupported slave +>>> language, and this would automagically add this new language to +>>> `po_slave_languages`. It would probably be useful in some +>>> usecases, but I'm not comfortable with letting unpriviledged wiki +>>> users change the wiki configuration as a side effect of their +>>> actions; if this were to be implemented, special care would be +>>> needed. [[--intrigeri]] +>>> +>>>> Actually I meant into any of the currently supported languages. +>>>> I guess that if the template modification is made, it will list those +>>>> languages on the page, and if a translation to a language is missing, +>>>> the link will allow creating it? +>>>> +>>>>> Any translation page always exist for every supported slave +>>>>> language, even if no string at all have been translated yet. +>>>>> This implies the po plugin is especially friendly to people who +>>>>> prefer reading in their native language if available, but don't +>>>>> mind reading in English else. +>>>>> +>>>>> While I'm at it, there is a remaining issue that needs to be +>>>>> sorted out: how painful it could be for non-English speakers +>>>>> (assuming the master language is English) to be perfectly able +>>>>> to navigate between translation pages supposed to be written in +>>>>> their own language, when their translation level is most +>>>>> often low. +>>>>> +>>>>> (It is currently easy to display this status on the translation +>>>>> page itself, but then it's too late, and how frustrating to load +>>>>> a page just to realize it's actually not translated enough for +>>>>> you. The "other languages" loop also allows displaying this +>>>>> information, but it is generally not the primary +>>>>> navigation tool.) +>>>>> +>>>>> IMHO, this is actually a social problem (i.e. it's no use adding +>>>>> a language to the supported slave ones if you don't have the +>>>>> manpower to actually do the translations), that can't be fully +>>>>> solved by technical solutions, but I can think of some hacks +>>>>> that would limit the negative impact: a given translation's +>>>>> status (currently = percent translated) could be displayed next +>>>>> to the link that leads to it; a color code could as well be used +>>>>> ("just" a matter of adding a CSS id or class to the links, +>>>>> depending on this variable). As there is already work to be done +>>>>> to have the links text generation more customizable through +>>>>> plugins, I could do both at the same time if we consider this +>>>>> matter to be important enough. --[[intrigeri]] + +>> FWIW, I'm tracking your po branch in ikiwiki master git in the po +>> branch. One thing I'd like to try in there is setting up a translated +>> basewiki, which seems like it should be pretty easy to do, and would be +>> a great demo! --[[Joey]] +>> +>>> I've merged your changes into my own branch, and made great +>>> progress on the various todo items. Please note my repository +>>> location has changed a few days ago, my user page was updated +>>> accordingly, but I forgot to update this page at the same time. +>>> Hoping it's not too complicated to relocated an existing remote... +>>> (never done that, I'm a Git beginner as well as a Perl +>>> newbie) --[[intrigeri]] +>>>> +>>>> Just a matter of editing .git/config, thanks for the heads up. +>>>>> +>>>>> Joey, please have a look at my branch, your help would be really +>>>>> welcome for the security research, as I'm almost done with what +>>>>> I am able to do myself in this area. --[[intrigeri]] +>>>>>> +>>>>>> I came up with a patch for the WrapI18N issue --[[Joey]]