X-Git-Url: http://git.vanrenterghem.biz/git.ikiwiki.info.git/blobdiff_plain/5150874861509b45835c7bd9565531b550a35db5..e112b8f385992ec4b3056d397802abe092547bb5:/doc/plugins/contrib/i18nheadinganchors/discussion.mdwn

diff --git a/doc/plugins/contrib/i18nheadinganchors/discussion.mdwn b/doc/plugins/contrib/i18nheadinganchors/discussion.mdwn
index 1c3eb6325..7841467b2 100644
--- a/doc/plugins/contrib/i18nheadinganchors/discussion.mdwn
+++ b/doc/plugins/contrib/i18nheadinganchors/discussion.mdwn
@@ -1,5 +1,5 @@
 I would not be comfortable with merging this into headinganchors and enabling it by
-default for two reasons:
+default for two main reasons:
 
 * it adds a new dependency on [[!cpan Text::Unidecode]]
 * Text::Unidecode specifically documents its transliteration as not being stable
@@ -18,6 +18,16 @@ anchor name](#пример) (the output of putting "example" into English-to-Rus
 Google Translate) hopefully works? (Use a small browser window to make it
 clearer where it goes)
 
+> Can we assume Ikiwiki generates HTML5 all the time? I thought that was still a 
+> setting off by default... --[[anarcat]]
+
+>> ikiwiki always generates HTML5, since 3.20150107. The `html5` option has
+>> been repurposed to control whether we generate new-in-HTML5 semantic
+>> markup like `<section>` and `<nav>` (`html5` enabled), or HTML4 equivalents
+>> like `<div>` with a class (`html5` disabled). The default is still off,
+>> although I should probably either toggle it to on or remove the option
+>> altogether in the next release. --s
+
 So perhaps we could try this Unicode-aware version of what Pandoc documents:
 
 * Remove footnote links if any (this might have to be heuristic, or we could
@@ -36,16 +46,91 @@ So perhaps we could try this Unicode-aware version of what Pandoc documents:
   an unused identifier
 
 (Or to provide better uniqueness, we could parse the document looking for any existing
-ID, then generate IDs avoiding collisions with any of them.)
+ID, then append `-1`, `-2` to each generated ID until there is no collision.)
 
 This would give us, for example, `## Visiting 北京` → `id="visiting-北京"`
-(where Text::Unidecode would instead transliterate, resulting in `id="visiting-bei-jing"`).
+(whereas Text::Unidecode would instead transliterate, resulting in
+`id="visiting-bei-jing"`).
 
 To use these IDs in fragments, I would be inclined to rely on browsers
 supporting [IRIs](https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3987): `<a href="#visiting-北京">`.
 
 --[[smcv]]
 
+> I guess this makes sense. I just wonder how well this is actually supported in all
+> browsers.. I looked around and suspect this will work in more recent browsers, but,
+> as an example, https://caniuse.com/ doesn't have that feature listed in their 
+> tables. :) -- [[anarcat]]
+
+>> That might well indicate that all major browsers have always supported it so
+>> there is no need to check. I don't see any particular reason why a browser vendor
+>> would not want to accept arbitrary non-whitespace as a valid anchor.
+>>
+>> In practice, minor or old browsers are probably insecure anyway, so I don't care
+>> too much about supporting them perfectly... --s
+
+> After thinking more about this, I don't feel that IRIs are a good
+> solution. Sure, there are machine-readable ways of encoding
+> non-ASCII characters in URLs. But that's not the point here: the
+> point here is to have *human* readable URLs. In the example I give
+> in the plugin documentation, I mention the french word "liberté"
+> which can easily be transliterated to "liberte". By using the
+> RFC3987 scheme, we could use unicode directly in the links (`a
+> href="#liberté"`), but the actual URL would be encoded as
+> `#libert%e9`, which is really not as pretty.
+>
+> I understand you not wanting to introduce another dependency. And I
+> also worry about the transliteration not being stable across
+> releases. After all, it might not even be stable across Unicode
+> releases either! But I'm ready to live with that inconvenience for
+> the user-friendliness of the resulting URLs. --[[anarcat]]
+
+----
+
+Documentation says:
+
+> _Also note that all heading attributes are overriden with the ID tag. If this
+> is not desirable, we'd need to fire up a full HTML::Parser or do some more
+> regex magic to preserve the attributes other than id= which we want to keep._
+
+I think this is a bug, particularly if you are using Pandoc's
+[header attributes](http://pandoc.org/MANUAL.html#extension-header_attributes)
+or similar.
+
+> It's not a bug, it's a limitation. :) But sure, it's a thing. It's an issue in
+> headinganchors as well of course. -- [[anarcat]]
+
+>> No, current/historical headinganchors has a different bug: it ignores headings
+>> that have any attributes, and does not generate anchors for them. That gives it
+>> degraded functionality, but no information loss. I think that's less bad. --s
+
+I think we should try to use an existing ID before generating our own, with the
+generation step as a fallback, just like Pandoc does. If a htmlize layer like
+Text::MultiMarkdown or Pandoc is generating worse IDs than this plugin, the
+the right solution to that is to send a bug report / feature request to
+make its IDs as good as this plugin's, or turn off ID generation in the
+htmlize layer, or stop using Text::MultiMarkdown.
+
+--[[smcv]]
+
+> Agreed. However, the situation I was in was that multimarkdown *and* the 
+> headinganchors plugins had issues I had to fix. So it was better and easier
+> for me to just override whatever attributes were there for testing and 
+> fixing this in the short term... -- [[anarcat]]
+
+> To bounce on this again: my problem with keeping existing IDs is
+> that it basically makes headinganchors fail to do anything if
+> something else adds the anchors. So I understand where you're coming
+> from with this, but that "bug" was introduced on purpose, to
+> actually fix a problem I was having.
+>
+> So I understand you might not want to *replace* headinganchors
+> completely with this module, but could we at least merge it in so I
+> wouldn't have to carry this patch around forever? :) Or what's our
+> way forward here?
+>
+> Thanks! -- [[anarcat]]
+
 ----
 
 <pre>Some long scrollable text
@@ -66,7 +151,7 @@ supporting [IRIs](https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3987): `<a href="#visiting-北
 .
 .
 .
-<span id="#пример">Example fragment ID in Russian should point here</span>
+<span id="пример">Example fragment ID in Russian should point here</span>
 .
 .
 .
@@ -90,3 +175,5 @@ supporting [IRIs](https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3987): `<a href="#visiting-北
 .
 .
 .</pre>
+
+> This works for me on ` Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:50.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/50.0` on Debian stretch, FWIW. --[[anarcat]]