+ problems probably don't really allow that. -J
+
+> Putting a JPEG in the web form is not an option from my point of
+> view :-) but perhaps there could just be a "web-editable" flag supplied
+> by plugins, and things could be changed to respect it.
+
+>> Replying to myself: would you accept patches to support
+>> `hook(type => 'htmlize', editable => 0, ...)` in editpage? This would
+>> essentially mean "this is an opaque binary: you can delete it
+>> or rename it, and it might have its own special editing UI, but you
+>> can never get it in a web form".
+>>
+>> On the other hand, that essentially means we need to reimplement
+>> editpage in order to edit the sidecar files that contain the metadata.
+>> Having already done one partial reimplementation of editpage (for
+>> comments) I'm in no hurry to do another.
+>>
+>> I suppose another possibility would be to register hook
+>> functions to be called by editpage when it loads and saves the
+>> file. In this case, the loading hook would be to discard
+>> the binary and use filter() instead, and the saving conversion
+>> would be to write the edited content into the metadata sidecar
+>> (creating it if necessary).
+>>
+>> I'd also need to make editpage (and also comments!) not allow the
+>> creation of a file of type albumjpg, albumgif etc., which is something
+>> I previously missed; and I'd need to make attachment able to
+>> upload-and-rename.
+>> -s
+
+>>> I believe the current branch meets your requirements, by having
+>>> first-class wiki pages spring into existence using `add_autofile`
+>>> to be viewer pages for photos. -s
+
+> In a way, what you really want for metadata is to have it in the album
+> page, so you can batch-edit the whole lot by editing one file (this
+> does mean that editing the album necessarily causes each of its viewers
+> to be rebuilt, but in practice that happens anyway). -s
+
+>> Replying to myself: in practice that *doesn't* happen anyway. Having
+>> the metadata in the album page is somewhat harmful because it means
+>> that changing the title of one image causes every viewer in the album
+>> to be rebuilt, whereas if you have a metadata file per image, only
+>> the album itself, plus the next and previous viewers, need
+>> rebuilding. So, I think a file per image is the way to go.
+>>
+>> Ideally we'd have some way to "batch-edit" the metadata of all
+>> images in an album at once, except that would make conflict
+>> resolution much more complicated to deal with; maybe just
+>> give up and scream about mid-air collisions in that case?
+>> (That's apparently good enough for Bugzilla, but not really
+>> for ikiwiki). -s
+
+>>> This is now in the main page's TODO list; if/when I implement this,
+>>> I intend to make it a specialized CGI interface. -s
+
+>> Yes, [all metadata in one file] would make some sense.. It also allows putting one image in
+>> two albums, with different caption etc. (Maybe for different audiences.)
+>> --[[Joey]]
+
+>>> Eek. No, that's not what I had in mind at all; the metadata ends up
+>>> in the "viewer" page, so it's necessarily the same for all albums. -s
+
+>> It would probably be possible to add a new dependency type, and thus
+>> make ikiwiki smart about noticing whether the metadata has actually
+>> changed, and only update those viewers where it has. But the dependency
+>> type stuff is still very new, and not plugin friendly .. so only just
+>> possible, --[[Joey]]
+
+----
+
+'''I think the "special extension" design is a dead-end, but here's what
+happened when I tried to work out how it would work. --[[smcv]]'''
+
+Suppose that each viewer is a JPEG-or-GIF-or-something, with extension
+".albumimage". We have a gallery "memes" with three images, badger,
+mushroom and snake.
+
+> An alternative might be to use ".album.jpg", and ".album.gif"
+> etc as the htmlize extensions. May need some fixes to ikiwiki to support
+> that. --[[Joey]]
+
+>> foo.albumjpg (etc.) for images, and foo._albummeta (with
+>> `keepextension => 1`) for sidecar metadata files, seems viable. -s
+
+Files in git repo:
+
+* index.mdwn
+* memes.mdwn
+* memes/badger.albumjpg (a renamed JPEG)
+* memes/badger/comment_1._comment
+* memes/badger/comment_2._comment
+* memes/mushroom.albumgif (a renamed GIF)
+* memes/mushroom._albummeta (sidecar file with metadata)
+* memes/snake.albummov (a renamed video)
+
+Files in web content:
+
+* index.html
+* memes/index.html
+* memes/96x96-badger.jpg (from img)
+* memes/96x96-mushroom.gif (from img)
+* memes/96x96-snake.jpg (from img, hacked up to use totem-video-thumbnailer :-) )
+* memes/badger/index.html (including comments)
+* memes/badger.jpg
+* memes/mushroom/index.html
+* memes/mushroom.gif
+* memes/snake/index.html
+* memes/snake.mov
+
+ispage("memes/badger") (etc.) must be true, to make the above rendering
+happen, so albumimage needs to be a "page" extension.
+
+To not confuse other plugins, album should probably have a filter() hook
+that turns .albumimage files into HTML? That'd probably be a reasonable
+way to get them rendered anyway.
+
+> I guess that is needed to avoid preprocess, scan, etc trying to process
+> the image, as well as eg, smiley trying to munge it in sanitize.
+> --[[Joey]]
+
+>> As long as nothing has a filter() hook that assumes it's already
+>> text... filters are run in arbitrary order. We seem to be OK so far
+>> though.
+>>
+>> If this is the route I take, I propose to have the result of filter()
+>> be the contents of the sidecar metadata file (empty string if none),
+>> with the `\[[!albumimage]]` directive (which no longer requires
+>> arguments) prepended if not already present. This would mean that
+>> meta directives in the metadata file would work as normal, and it
+>> would be possible to insert text both before and after the viewer
+>> if desired. The result of filter() would also be a sensible starting
+>> point for editing, and the result of editing could be diverted into
+>> the metadata file. -s
+
+do=edit&page=memes/badger needs to not put the JPG in a text box: somehow
+divert or override the normal edit CGI by telling it that .albumimage
+files are not editable in the usual way?
+
+> Something I missed here is that editpage also needs to be told that
+> creating new files of type albumjpg, albumgif etc. is not allowed
+> either! -s
+
+Every image needs to depend on, and link to, the next and previous images,
+which is a bit tricky. In previous thinking about this I'd been applying
+the overly strict constraint that the ordered sequence of pages in each
+album must be known at scan time. However, that's not *necessarily* needed:
+the album and each photo could collect an unordered superset of dependencies
+at scan time, and at rebuild time that could be refined to be the exact set,
+in order.
+
+> Why do you need to collect this info at scan time? You can determine it
+> at build time via `pagespec_match_list`, surely .. maybe with some
+> memoization to avoid each image in an album building the same list.
+> I sense that I may be missing a subtelty though. --[[Joey]]
+
+>> I think I was misunderstanding how early you have to call `add_depends`
+>> as mentioned above. -s
+
+Perhaps restricting to "the images in an album A must match A/*"
+would be useful; then the unordered superset could just be "A/*". Your
+"albums via tags" idea would be nice too though, particularly for feature
+parity with e.g. Facebook: "photos of Joey" -> "tags/joey and albumimage()"
+maybe?
+
+If images are allowed to be considered to be part of more than one album,
+then a pretty and usable UI becomes harder - "next/previous" expands into
+"next photo in holidays/2009/germany / next photo in tagged/smcv / ..."
+and it could get quite hard to navigate. Perhaps next/previous links could
+be displayed only for the closest ancestor (in URL space) that is an
+album, or something?
+
+> Ugh, yeah, that is a problem. Perhaps wanting to support that was just
+> too ambitious. --[[Joey]]
+
+>> I propose to restrict to having images be subpages of albums, as
+>> described above. -s
+
+Requiring renaming is awkward for non-technical Windows/Mac users, with both
+platforms' defaults being to hide extensions; however, this could be
+circumvented by adding some sort of hook in attachment to turn things into
+a .albumimage at upload time, and declaring that using git/svn/... without
+extensions visible is a "don't do that then" situation :-)
+
+> Or extend `pagetype` so it can do the necessary matching without
+> renaming. Maybe by allowing a subdirectory to be specified along
+> with an extension. (Or allow specifying a full pagespec,
+> but I hesitate to seriously suggest that.) --[[Joey]]
+
+>> I think that might be a terrifying idea for another day. If we can
+>> mutate the extension during the `attach` upload, that'd be enough;
+>> I don't think people who are skilled enough to use git/svn/...,
+>> but not skilled enough to tell Explorer to show file extensions,
+>> represent a major use case. -s
+
+Ideally attachment could also be configured to upload into a specified
+underlay, so that photos don't have to be in your source-code control
+(you might want that, but I don't!).
+
+> Replying to myself: perhaps best done as an orthogonal extension
+> to attach? -s
+
+> Yet another non-obvious thing this design would need to do is to find
+> some way to have each change to memes/badger._albummeta show up as a
+> change to memes/badger in `recentchanges`. -s
+
+Things that would be nice, and are probably possible:
+
+* make the "Edit page" link on viewers divert to album-specific CGI instead
+ of just failing or not appearing (probably possible via pagetemplate)
+
+* some way to deep-link to memes/badger.jpg with a wikilink, without knowing a
+ priori that it's secretly a JPEG (probably harder than it looks - you'd
+ have to make a directive for it and it's probably not worth it)
+
+----
+
+Hi smcv, great plugin. I am an ikiwiki newbie but so far I've had success using your plugin.
+I've integrated the jquery masonry plugin into the albumitem template and it works great.
+But is there a way to create thumnails of different sizes? I've passed thumnailsize option
+and value to album directive and while it does create the new thumbnail sizes it doesn't use them,
+The 96x96 thumbnails still appear on the page no matter what I do. - jaime
+
+----
+
+Hi, the plugin looks great, but I am probably too dumb to use it ;( here is what I did:
+created page gal.mdwn with just \[\[!album\]\] directive (no arguments) and subdirectory gal/ with images in form img_1234.jpg
+
+when I run ikiwiki, I get something completely wrong though:
+
+generated gal/index.html page contains following code repeated for every image:
+
+ <div class="album-viewer">
+ <div id="album-img">
+ <div class="album-finish">
+ <a href="./"><span class="album-arrow">↑</span></a>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+
+So no links to any images, etc.
+
+The pages for individual images are generated though, but also not correct. Trails section is perfect, but the main part is wrong:
+
+ <div class="album-prev">
+ <a><span class="album-arrow">â†<90></span></a><br />
+ <div class="album-thumbnail">
+ <span class="selflink">
+ <img src="./96x96-img_2913.jpg" width="96" height="72" alt="img 2913" title="img 2913" class="img" /></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+
+This really seems like this should be in the album page and not individul page. It is only thumbnail and not full image. Also the full image is not in the generated html tree at all!
+
+I am using ikiwiki 3.20130518, and got the album sources from the links of [this page](http://ikiwiki.info/plugins/contrib/album/) (part manual installation)
+
+Any hint about what do I do wrong?
+
+Thanks Lukas
+
+> This plugin is not really finished. I probably need to update it for
+> current ikiwiki. I'll try to update it (and also update my demo
+> and installation instructions) at some point. --[[smcv]]
+
+>> I have to appologize, I accidentally copied the template wrongly and that caused all the issues ;(
+>> So now after two days debugging and tracing, I just fixed that and it works. Well, at least a learnt
+>> a lot about ikiwiki internal ;-)
+>> Thanks for all the work you did on the plugin! --Lukas
+
+----
+Hi smcv, we spoke on irc the other day. Passed `show => "0"` on line 126 in album.pm to remove the limit on the thumbnails shown on the album page. Setting it on the album directive didn't work. As mentioned above by Jaime setting the thumbnailsize doesn't catch either. Or rather if I git push after changing the album directive the generated thumbnails (the image files) are the correct size as set in the directive. The html however uses the default thumbnailsize as hardcoded in album.pm and has broken thumbnails as it links to a file with the default size in the filename.
+
+Issuing `ikiwiki --rebuild` knocks the system into another gear where the thumbnails show up correctly but this is only due to the html being the same as above (linking to hardcoded thumbnailsize) but the generated thumbnail images are now matching the hardcoded size ignoring the thumbnailsize attribute on the album directive.
+
+For me this behaviour is way beyond my skills to sort out (I'm no coder). The albumplugin ikiwiki combo is very attractive to me and the plugin i soo close to working!
+
+I've changed the behavior of the "slideshow" to show the next image when clicking the large image as downloading a full resolution image is a rare use case in a gallery of this type imho. The large clicktarget means you are likely to unnecessarily download large files otherwise. I can't quite follow the template, album.pm flow so I can't figure out how to put a "download full resolution" link on the viewer page which would be my next step. To achieve the next link i added ` link => ($nextpage or $album),` around line 454 in `my $img`
+
+My wishlist for the plugin would include:
+
+- Reading exif info from the imagefile
+- Keeping the full resolution image files out of version control
+- Being able to create new albums by tag or bym anually picking images from other albums. Could be a simple comma separated list of viewer names, or even full urls, in the album directive.
+
+--kjs
+
+----
+