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[git.ikiwiki.info.git] / doc / index / discussion.mdwn

diff --git a/doc/index/discussion.mdwn b/doc/index/discussion.mdwn
index 15a85725ab50a1ed7fd064a540a28b80f98dfcc3..9f9b1820b3fd6f47334c6dfb34d957767c712224 100644 (file)
--- a/doc/index/discussion.mdwn
+++ b/doc/index/discussion.mdwn
@@ -5,54 +5,25 @@ Do so here..
 Note that for more formal bug reports or todo items, you can also edit the
 [[bugs]] and [[todo]] pages.
 
 Note that for more formal bug reports or todo items, you can also edit the
 [[bugs]] and [[todo]] pages.
 

-# Installation/Setup questions
-
-I have just installed ikiwiki and it works - at least I have the example index.mdwn page
-compiled and visible.  However I have a few issues/problems:-
-
-* A couple of the 'optional' Perl modules aren't optional, you can't install ikiwiki without them,
-these are HTML::Template and HTML::Scrubber (at least I think it was these two, it's a bit messy 
-to go back and find out).
+[[toc ]]

 
 

-> You're right, HTML::Template is required. HTML::Scrubber is only required
-> in the default configuration, and is optional if the htmlscrubber plugin
-> is disabled. --[[Joey]]
+# Installation/Setup questions

 
 

-* I don't seem to have got an ikiwiki man page created.
+Ikiwiki creates a .ikiwiki directory in my wikiwc working directory. Should I
+"svn add .ikiwiki" or add it to svn:ignore?

 
 

-> It should be installed in /usr/share/man, or a similar directory
-> depending on how your perl is set up and how you did the install.
-> --[[Joey]]
+> `.ikiwiki` is used by ikiwiki to store internal state. You can add it to
+> svn:ignore. --[[Joey]]
+> > Thanks a lot.

 
 

-> Found it, in /usr/local/share/man, since no other man pages are in either /usr/share/man or in /usr/local/share/man the ikiwiki
-> man page is a bit lonely, and more to the point not on my MANPATH.  Still I have found it now, I'll just move it to somewhere
-> more sensible. [[Chris]]
-
-* Running "ikiwiki --setup ikiwiki.setup" doesn't do anything.  I have edited ikiwiki.setup to
-my local settings.  There are no errors but neither does anything get compiled.  An ikiwiki
-command to explicitly do the compile works fine.  Am I misunderstanding something here?
-
-> Further tests indicate that ikiwiki isn't seeing changed files so doesn't always rebuild.
-> How does ikiwiki decide when to rebuild?  I tried a full command line like "ikiwiki --verbose ikiwiki ~/public_html/ikiwiki --url=http://www.isbd.ltd.uk/~chris/ikiwiki/" and that doesn't do anything
-either though it was the command line I originally used to compile.  After a long interval I 'touch'ed 
-the files and then it *did* compile but 'touch'ing the files after a few minutes only doesn't seem to force a recompile.  I'm even more confused!
-
-> ikiwiki only compiles files whose modification times have changed. It
-> should see any change made as close as a second after the last compile.
-> When run with --setup, ikiwiki always rebuilds every file in the wiki. If
-> --setup is not working, you must have it pointed at the wrong path or
-> something; you can pass -v to see what it's doing. I don't know why it
-> would not see recently changed files; you could try stracing it.
-> --[[Joey]]
+Is there an easy way to log via e-mail to some webmaster address, instead
+of via syslog?

 
 

-> OK, thanks, I don't quite know what was happening before but it seems to be working right now.
-> --[[Chris]]
+> Not sure why you'd want to do that, but couldn't you use a tool like
+> logwatch to mail selected lines from the syslog? --[[Joey]]

 
 

->> Weird. I wish I knew what happened, but as it's working now, I'm
->> guessing some kind of user error was involved. --[[Joey]]
-
-* I wish there was a mailing list, much easier for this sort of stuff than this, apart from
-anything else I get to use a decent editor.
+> > The reason is that I'm not logged in on the web server regularly to
+> > check the log files. I'll see whether I can install a logwatch instance.

 
 ----
 # Excellent - how do I translate a TWiki site?
 
 ----
 # Excellent - how do I translate a TWiki site?


@@ -78,199 +49,139 @@ easily, perl is possible (but I'm not strong in perl).
 >
 > We will post the scripts as soon as we have them complete enough to convert our wikis.
 >
 >
 > We will post the scripts as soon as we have them complete enough to convert our wikis.
 >

-> -- Josh Triplett
+> -- [[JoshTriplett]]

 
 >> Thanks for an excellent Xmas present, I will appreciate the additional 
 >> users this will help switch to ikiwiki! --[[Joey]]
 
 ----
 
 
 >> Thanks for an excellent Xmas present, I will appreciate the additional 
 >> users this will help switch to ikiwiki! --[[Joey]]
 
 ----
 

-# OpenID
-
-I just figured I'd edit something on the page with my OpenID, since you've implemented it! --*[Kyle](http://kitenet.net/~kyle/)*=
-
-> Kyle, If you like openid, I can switch your personal wiki over to use your openid. --[[Joey]]
-
----- 
-
-# ACL
-
-How about adding ACL? So that you can control which users are allowed
-to read, write certain pages. The moinmoin wiki has that, and it is
-something, that I think is very valuable. 
-
-> ikiwiki currently has only the most rudimentary access controls: pages
-> can be locked, or unlocked and only the admin can edit locked pages. That
-> could certianly be expanded on, although it's not an area that I have an
-> overwhelming desire to work on myself right now. Patches appreciated and
-> I'll be happy to point you in the right directions.. --[[Joey]]
-
->> I'm really curious how you'd suggest implementing ACLs on reading a page.
->> It seems to me the only way you could do it is .htaccess DenyAll or something,
->> and then route all page views through ikiwiki.cgi. Am I missing something?
->> --[[Ethan]]
-
->>> Or you could just use apache or whatever and set up the access controls
->>> there. Of course, that wouldn't integrate very well with the wiki,
->>> unless perhaps you decided to use http basic authentication and the
->>> httpauth plugin for ikiwiki that integrates with that.. --[[Joey]]
-
->>>> Which would rule out openid, or other fun forms of auth. And routing all access 
->>>> through the CGI sort of defeats the purpose of ikiwiki. --[[Ethan]]
-
-----
-
-Some questions about the RecentChanges function. -- Ethan
+# LaTeX support?

 
 

-> (Moved to [[todo/recentchanges]] --[[Joey]])
+Moved to [[todo/latex]] --[[Joey]]

 
 ----
 
 
 ----
 

-Also, I'd like to request another template parameter which is just
-$config{url}. That way you won't have to hard-code the URL of the wiki into
-the template. -- Ethan
+# Using with CVS?

 
 

-> That's already available in the BASEURL parameter. --[[Joey]]
+Moved to a [[todo_item|todo/CVS_backend]]. --[[JoshTriplett]]

 
 ----
 
 
 ----
 

-# Canonical feed location?
-
-Any way to use `inline` but point the feed links to a different feed on the
-same site?  I have news in news/*, a news archive in news.mdwn, and the
-first few news items on index.mdwn, but I don't really want two separate
-feeds, one with all news and one with the latest few articles; I'd rather
-point the RSS feed links of both to the same feed.  (Which one, the one
-with all news or the one with the latest news only, I don't know yet.)
-
-> Not currently. It could be implemented, or you could just turn off the
-> rss feed for the index page, and manually put in a wikilink to the news
-> page and rss feed. --[[Joey]]
+# Show differences before saving page?

 
 

->> That wouldn't use the same style for the RSS and Atom links, and it
->> wouldn't embed the feed link into `<head>` so that browsers can automatically
->> find it.
+Moved to the existing [[todo_item|todo/preview_changes]]. --[[JoshTriplett]]

 
 ----
 
 
 ----
 

-# asciidoc or txt2tags ?
+# Max submit size?

 
 

-Any plugins or support for using asciidoc or txt2tags as the wiki language and/or exporting to asciidoc or txt2tags?
+Any setting for limiting how many kilobytes can be submitted via the "edit" form?
+-- [[JeremyReed]]

 
 

-> No, but it should be quite easy to write such a plugin. The otl plugin
-> is a good example of writing a formatting plugin that uses an external
-> conversion program, like asciidoc or txt2tags. --[[Joey]]
+>>> See [[todo/fileupload]] for an idea on limiting page size. --[[Joey]]

 
 ----
 
 
 ----
 

-# LaTeX support?
+# Access Keys

 
 

-Any plugins or support for exporting to LaTeX?
-(If not could use asciidoc or txt2tags mentioned above to generated LaTeX.)
+Would anyone else find this a valuable addition.  In oddmuse and instiki (the only other
+wiki engines I am currently using, the edit, home, and submit link tags have an
+accesskey attribute.  I find it nice not to have to resort to the mouse for those
+actions.  However, it may not be something everyone appreciates.  Any thoughts?
+--[Mazirian](http://mazirian.com)

 
 

-> It's already [[been_requested|todo/latex]], although perhaps not
-> working the way you're thinking of. Noone is currently working on it.
-> --[[Joey]]
+> Maybe, although it would need to take the critisism at
+> <http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/forms/accesskey.html> into account.

 
 

->> I did some tests with using Markdown and a customized HTML::Latex and html2latex
->> and it appears it will work for me now. (I hope to use ikiwiki for many
->> to collaborate on a printed book that will be generated at least once per day in PDF format.)
->>
->> --JeremyReed
+>> Thank you for that link. Given that the edit link is the first thing you tab to
+>> in the current layout, I guess it isn't all that necessary. I have had a 
+>> a user complaint recently that Alt-e in oddmuse was overriding his access
+>> to the browser menu.

 
 ----
 
 
 ----
 

-# Using with RCS?
-
-Any examples of using co(1), ci(1) and other RCS related tools with ikiwiki?
+# Editing the style sheet.

 
 

-> I don't belive that RCS offers enough SCM features to be useable as a
-> fullfledged backend to ikiwiki. For one thing, there's no way to have
-> hook scripts run when changes are ci'd, is there? So you'd have to ci and
-> then manually run ikiwiki. It should be possible to do an RCS backend
-> that supports web commits with ci, and history (parsing the rcs files by
-> hand?). If you're a masochist. :-) --[[Joey]]
+It would be nice to be able to edit the stylesheet by means of the cgi.  Or is this possible?  I wasn't able to achieve it.
+Ok, that's my last 2 cents for a while. --[Mazirian](http://mazirian.com)

 
 

->> It does have history using rlog(1) which is similar format to "cvs log".
->> I don't think it has any possible hooks. What would happen if I call
->> ikiwiki directly from rcs_commit? (I didn't try yet.) On that note,
->> I don't see any way for ikiwiki to generate a single file, but I guess
->> that doesn't matter as --refresh should be fast enough.
->> I made a Rcs/rcs.pm plugin from Stub. I have been testing it some.
->>
->> --JeremyReed
+> I don't support editing it, but if/when ikiwiki gets [[todo/fileupload]] support,
+> it'll be possible to upload a style sheet. (If .css is in the allowed
+> extensions list.. no idea how safe that would be, a style sheet is
+> probably a great place to put XSS attacks and evil javascript that would
+> be filtered out of any regular page in ikiwiki). --[[Joey]]

 
 

->> I made a working rcs plugin. And I made a RCS-to-web CGI. Details
->> at [[patchqueue/rcs_(third-party_plugin)]]
->> --[[JeremyReed]]
->>
->> (Moved to patchqueue --[[Joey]])
+>> I hadn't thought of that at all.  It's a common feature and one I've
+>> relied on safely, because the wikis I am maintaining at the moment
+>> are all private and restricted to trusted users. Given that the whole
+>> point of ikiwiki is to be able to access and edit via the shell as
+>> well as the web, I suppose the features doesn't add a lot.  By the
+>> way, the w3m mode is brilliant.  I haven't tried it yet, but the idea
+>> is great.

 
 ----
 
 
 ----
 

-# Using with CVS?
+# Should not create an existing page

 
 

-Any examples of using ikiwiki with cvs?
+This might be a bug, but will discuss it here first.
+Clicking on an old "?" or going to a create link but new Markdown content exists, should not go into "create" mode, but should do a regular "edit".

 
 

-> No, although the existing svn backend could fairly esily be modified into
-> a CVS backend, by someone who doesn't mind working with CVS. --[[Joey]]
+> I belive that currently it does a redirect to the new static web page.
+> At least that's the intent of the code. --[[Joey]]

 
 

-----
+>> Try at your site: `?page=discussion&from=index&do=create`
+>> It brings up an empty textarea to start a new webpage -- even though it already exists here. --reed

 
 

-# Show differences before saving page?
-
-It would be nice to be able to have a button to show "Differences" (or "Show Diff") when
-editing a page. Is that an option that can be enabled?
-
-> It's doable, it could even be done by a [[todo/plugin]], I think.
-> --[[Joey]]
+>>> Ah, right. Notice that the resulting form allows saving the page as
+>>> discussion, or users/discussion, but not index/discussion, since this
+>>> page already exists. If all the pages existed, it would do the redirect
+>>> thing. --[[Joey]]

 
 ----
 
 
 ----
 

-# Max submit size?
+# User database tools?

 
 

-Any setting for limiting how many kilobytes can be submitted via the "edit" form?
--- [[JeremyReed]]
+Any tool to view user database?

 
 

-> Not currently. Worried about abuse? --[[Joey]]
+Any tool to edit the user database?

 
 

->> I didn't want it abused accidently or with malice. I was thinking that Perl's CGI.pm would handle this, but I don't see that.
->> I read that textarea max bytes may be 500 lines or 28000 characters or 30000 characters or 64kB. It seems like it
->> varies and I didn't test myself, because I guess it may depend on different clients and different HTTP servers. 
->> This could be checked using javascript on the client side (before submitting) and by checking size on server side (before saving). --[[JeremyReed]]
+> No, but it's fairly easy to write such tools in perl. For example, to
+> list all users in the user database:

 
 

->>> The absolute limit varies by browser. If there are web servers that
->>> also limit it, I don't know of them. --[[Joey]]
+       joey@kodama:~/src/joeywiki/.ikiwiki>perl -le 'use Storable; my $userinfo=Storable::retrieve("userdb"); print $_ foreach keys %$userinfo'         
+       http://joey.kitenet.net/
+       foo

 
 

-----
+> To list each user's email address:

 
 

-# Disable sub-discussion pages?
+       joey@kodama:~/src/joeywiki/.ikiwiki>perl -le 'use Storable; my $userinfo=Storable::retrieve("userdb"); print $userinfo->{$_}->{email} foreach keys %$userinfo'
+       
+       joey@kitenet.net

 
 

-> Moved to [[bugs]] -- [[Joey]]
+> Editing is simply a matter of changing values and calling Storable::store().
+> I've not written actual utilities to do this yet because I've only needed
+> to do it rarely, and the data I've wanted has been different each time.
+> --[[Joey]]

 
 ----
 
 
 ----
 

-# wiki\_file\_regexp and RCS ,v files
+# Spaces in WikiLinks?

 
 

-I have RCS ,v files in my source directory. But get many "skipping bad filename" warnings.
+Hello Joey,

 
 

-Also I don't see wiki\_file\_regexp documented. Because it is used with $config{wiki\_file\_regexp} I assume it can be set in the ikiwiki.setup.
-I added a comma to it in my IkiWiki.pm in the defaultconfig(). But that was wrong (so I reverted back), because then the ,v files were copied to my www tree.
+I've just switched from ikiwiki 2.0 to ikiwiki 2.2 and I'm really surprised
+that I can't use the spaces in WikiLinks. Could you please tell me why the spaces
+aren't allowed in WikiLinks now?

 
 

-What is the correct way to include ,v RCS revision files in my source tree without receiving the "bad" messages and without copying over to www tree?
+My best regards,

 
 

--- [[JeremyReed]]
+--[[Paweł|ptecza]]

 
 

-> Add the ,v to the $config{wiki_file_prune_regexps} array. This is how we
-> skip equivilant files from other revision control systems too.
-> --[[Joey]]]
+> See [[bugs/Spaces_in_link_text_for_ikiwiki_links]]

 
 ----
 
 
 ----
 

-# Textile Plugin
-
-It was trivial, but I put together a plugin that uses the Textile markup
-language, which I find to be the most superior of the various options for
-that sort of thing.  Where or how do I submit it for inclusion?
+# Build in OpenSolaris?

 
 

-> You can post it to [[plugins/contrib]]. --[[Joey]]
+Moved to [[bugs/build_in_opensolaris]] --[[Joey]]