Merge commit 'upstream/master' into pub/master

[git.ikiwiki.info.git] / doc / index / discussion.mdwn

diff --git a/doc/index/discussion.mdwn b/doc/index/discussion.mdwn
index a1dbeb0a711d7f92c0140df2fed6b4785e70e7b0..d52cb0a2dc41a3a7742f27e1955972d842b3b6d4 100644 (file)
--- a/doc/index/discussion.mdwn
+++ b/doc/index/discussion.mdwn
@@ -5,7 +5,7 @@ Do so here..
 Note that for more formal bug reports or todo items, you can also edit the
 [[bugs]] and [[todo]] pages.
 
 Note that for more formal bug reports or todo items, you can also edit the
 [[bugs]] and [[todo]] pages.
 

-[[toc ]]
+[[!toc ]]

 
 # Installation/Setup questions
 
 
 # Installation/Setup questions
 


@@ -25,6 +25,79 @@ of via syslog?
 > > The reason is that I'm not logged in on the web server regularly to
 > > check the log files. I'll see whether I can install a logwatch instance.
 
 > > The reason is that I'm not logged in on the web server regularly to
 > > check the log files. I'll see whether I can install a logwatch instance.
 

+I'm trying to install from scratch on a CentOS 4.6 system.  I installed perl 5.8.8 from source and then added all the required modules via CPAN.  When I build ikiwiki from the tarball, I get this message:
+
+    rendering todo/calendar_--_archive_browsing_via_a_calendar_frontend.mdwn
+    *** glibc detected *** double free or corruption (!prev): 0x0922e478 ***
+    make: *** [extra_build] Aborted
+
+I'm kind of at a loss how to track this down or work around it.  Any suggestions? --Monty
+
+> All I can tell you is that it looks like a problem with your C library or
+> perl. Little perl programs like ikiwiki should only be able to trigger
+> such bugs, not contain them. :-) Sorry I can't be of more help.
+> --[[Joey]]
+
+> I had a similar problem after upgrading to the latest version of
+> Text::Markdown from CPAN.  You might try either looking for a Markdown
+> package for CentOS or using the latest version of John Gruber's
+> Markdown.pl:
+> <http://daringfireball.net/projects/downloads/Markdown_1.0.2b8.tbz>
+> --[[JasonBlevins]], April 1, 2008 18:22 EDT
+
+>> Unfortunately I couldn't find a CentOS package for markdown, and I
+>> couldn't quite figure out how to use John Gruber's version instead.
+>> I tried copying it to site_perl, etc., but the build doesn't pick 
+>> it up.  For now I can just play with it on my Ubuntu laptop for which
+>> the debian package installed flawlessly.  I'll probably wait for an
+>> updated version of Markdown to see if this is fixed in the future.
+>> --Monty
+
+>I suggest that you pull an older version of Text::Markdown from CPAN. I am using <http://backpan.perl.org/authors/id/B/BO/BOBTFISH/Text-Markdown-1.0.5.tar.gz> and that works just fine.
+>There is a step change in version and size between this version (dated 11Jan2008) and the next version (1.0.12 dated 18Feb2008). I shall have a little look to see why, in due course.
+>Ubuntu Hardy Heron has a debian package now, but that does not work either.
+> --Dirk 22Apr2008
+
+> This might be related to [Text::Markdown bug #37297](http://rt.cpan.org/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=37297).--ChapmanFlack 9Jul2008
+
+----
+
+# Installation of selected docs (html)
+
+The latest release has around 560 files (over 2MB) in html.
+
+Any suggestions or ideas on limiting what html is installed?
+
+For example, I don't see value in every ikiwiki install out there to also install personal "users" ikiwiki pages.
+
+For now I copy ikiwiki.setup. And then use pax with -L switch to copy the targets of the symlinks of the basewiki.
+
+I was thinking of making a list of desired documents from the html directory to install.
+
+--JeremyReed
+
+> You don't need any of them, unless you want to read ikiwiki's docs locally.
+> 
+> I don't understand why you're installing the basewiki files manually;
+> ikiwiki has a Makefile that will do this for you. --[[Joey]]
+
+>> The Makefile's install doesn't do what I want so I use different installer for it.
+>> It assumes wrong location for man pages for me. (And it should consider using INSTALLVENDORMAN1DIR and
+>> MAN1EXT but I don't know about section 8 since I don't know of perl value for that.)
+>> I don't want w3m cgi installed; it is optional for my package.
+>> I will just patch for that instead of using my own installer.
+>> Note: I am working on the pkgsrc package build specification for this. This is for creating
+>> packages for NetBSD, DragonFly and other systems that use pkgsrc package system.
+>> --JeremyReed
+
+# Installation as non-root user
+
+I'd like to install ikiwiki as a non-root user. I can plow through getting all the 
+perl dependencies installed because that's well documented in the perl world,
+but I don't know how to tell ikiwiki to install somewhere other than / --BrianWilson
+
+> Checkout the tips section for [[tips/DreamHost]].  It should do the trick. --MattReynolds
+

 ----
 
 # Upgrade steps
 ----
 
 # Upgrade steps


@@ -84,6 +157,11 @@ but I still have empty pages for editing (no textbox no html at all).
 >> Not using apache. Nothing useful in logs other thn the HTTP return codes are "0" and bytes is "-"
 >> on the empty ikiwiki.cgi output (should say " 200 " followed by bytes).
 
 >> Not using apache. Nothing useful in logs other thn the HTTP return codes are "0" and bytes is "-"
 >> on the empty ikiwiki.cgi output (should say " 200 " followed by bytes).
 

+>>> You need to either figure out what your web server does with stderr
+>>> from cgi programs, or run ikiwiki.cgi at the command line with an
+>>> appropriate environment so it thinks it's being called from a web
+>>> server, so you can see how it's failing. --[[Joey]]
+

 (I am posting this now, but will do some research and post some more.)
 
 Is there any webpage with upgrade steps?
 (I am posting this now, but will do some research and post some more.)
 
 Is there any webpage with upgrade steps?


@@ -95,6 +173,8 @@ Is there any webpage with upgrade steps?
 >> Also it appears to be missing the news from between 1.40 to 2.0 unless they dont' exist.
 >> If they do exist maybe they have release notes I need?
 
 >> Also it appears to be missing the news from between 1.40 to 2.0 unless they dont' exist.
 >> If they do exist maybe they have release notes I need?
 

+>>> All the old ones are in the NEWS file. --[[Joey]]
+

 --JeremyReed
 
 My followup: I used a new ikiwiki.setup based on the latest version. But no changes for me.
 --JeremyReed
 
 My followup: I used a new ikiwiki.setup based on the latest version. But no changes for me.


@@ -143,6 +223,31 @@ Now ikiwiki is working for me again (but using 1.40). I shouldn't have tested on
 
 --JeremyReed
 
 
 --JeremyReed
 

+I am back. On a different system, I installed ikiwiki 2.6.1. Same problem -- blank CGI webpage.
+
+So I manually ran with:
+
+    REQUEST_METHOD=GET QUERY_STRING='do=create&page=jcr' kiwiki.cgi
+
+And clearly saw the error:
+
+    [IkiWiki::main] Fatal: Bad template engine CGI::FormBuilder::Template::div: Can't locate CGI/FormBuilder/Template/div.pm
+
+So I found my version was too old and 3.05 is the first to provide "Div" support. I upgraded my p5-CGI-FormBuilder to 3.0501.
+And ikiwiki CGI started working for me.
+
+The Ikiwiki docs about this requirement got removed in Revision 4367. There should be a page that lists the requirements.
+(I guess I could have used the debian/control file.)
+
+> There is a page, [[install]] documents that 3.05 is needed.
+
+>> Sorry, I missed that. With hundreds of wikipages it is hard to read all of them.
+>> I am updating the download page now to link to it.
+
+I am now using ikiwiki 2.6.1 on my testing system.
+
+--JeremyReed
+

 ----
 # Excellent - how do I translate a TWiki site?
 
 ----
 # Excellent - how do I translate a TWiki site?
 


@@ -163,7 +268,7 @@ easily, perl is possible (but I'm not strong in perl).
 
 > Jamey Sharp and I have a set of scripts in progress to convert other wikis to ikiwiki, including history, so that we can migrate a few of our wikis.  We already have support for migrating MoinMoin wikis to ikiwiki, including conversion of the entire history to Git.  We used this to convert the [XCB wiki](http://xcb.freedesktop.org/wiki/) to ikiwiki; until we finalize the conversion and put the new wiki in place of the old one, you can browse the converted result at <http://xcb.freedesktop.org/ikiwiki>.  We already plan to add support for TWiki (including history, since you can just run parsecvs on the TWiki RCS files to get Git), so that we can convert the [Portland State Aerospace Society wiki](http://psas.pdx.edu) (currently in Moin, but with much of its history in TWiki, and with many of its pages still in TWiki format using Jamey's TWiki format for MoinMoin).
 >
 
 > Jamey Sharp and I have a set of scripts in progress to convert other wikis to ikiwiki, including history, so that we can migrate a few of our wikis.  We already have support for migrating MoinMoin wikis to ikiwiki, including conversion of the entire history to Git.  We used this to convert the [XCB wiki](http://xcb.freedesktop.org/wiki/) to ikiwiki; until we finalize the conversion and put the new wiki in place of the old one, you can browse the converted result at <http://xcb.freedesktop.org/ikiwiki>.  We already plan to add support for TWiki (including history, since you can just run parsecvs on the TWiki RCS files to get Git), so that we can convert the [Portland State Aerospace Society wiki](http://psas.pdx.edu) (currently in Moin, but with much of its history in TWiki, and with many of its pages still in TWiki format using Jamey's TWiki format for MoinMoin).
 >

-> Our scripts convert by way of HTML, using portions of the source wiki's code to render as HTML (with some additional code to do things like translate MoinMoin's `\[[TableOfContents]]` to ikiwiki's `\[[toc ]]`), and then using a modified [[cpan HTML::WikiConverter]] to turn this into markdown and ikiwiki.  This produces quite satisfactory results, apart from things that don't have any markdown equivalent and thus remain HTML, such as tables and definition lists.  Conversion of the history occurs by first using another script we wrote to translate MoinMoin history to Git, then using our git-map script to map a transformation over the Git history.
+> Our scripts convert by way of HTML, using portions of the source wiki's code to render as HTML (with some additional code to do things like translate MoinMoin's `\[[TableOfContents]]` to ikiwiki's `\[[!toc ]]`), and then using a modified [[!cpan HTML::WikiConverter]] to turn this into markdown and ikiwiki.  This produces quite satisfactory results, apart from things that don't have any markdown equivalent and thus remain HTML, such as tables and definition lists.  Conversion of the history occurs by first using another script we wrote to translate MoinMoin history to Git, then using our git-map script to map a transformation over the Git history.

 >
 > We will post the scripts as soon as we have them complete enough to convert our wikis.
 >
 >
 > We will post the scripts as soon as we have them complete enough to convert our wikis.
 >


@@ -172,6 +277,21 @@ easily, perl is possible (but I'm not strong in perl).
 >> Thanks for an excellent Xmas present, I will appreciate the additional 
 >> users this will help switch to ikiwiki! --[[Joey]]
 
 >> Thanks for an excellent Xmas present, I will appreciate the additional 
 >> users this will help switch to ikiwiki! --[[Joey]]
 

+
+>> Sounds great indeed. Learning from [here](http://www.bddebian.com/~wiki/AboutTheTWikiToIkiwikiConversion/) that HTML::WikiConverter needed for your conversion was not up-to-date on Debian I have now done an unofficial package, including your proposed Markdown patches, apt-get'able at <pre>deb http://debian.jones.dk/ sid wikitools</pre>
+>> -- [[JonasSmedegaard]]
+
+
+>>I see the "We will post the scripts ...." was committed about a year ago.  A current site search for "Moin" does not turn them up.  Any chance of an appearance in the near (end of year) future?
+>>
+>> -- [[MichaelRasmussen]]
+
+>>> It appears the scripts were never posted?  I recently imported my Mediawiki site into Iki.  If it helps, my notes are here: <http://iki.u32.net/Mediawiki_Conversion> --[[sabr]]
+
+>>>>> The scripts have been posted now, see [[joshtriplett]]'s user page, 
+>>>>> and I've pulled together all ways I can find to [[convert]] other
+>>>>> systems into ikiwiki. --[[Joey]]
+

 ----
 
 # LaTeX support?
 ----
 
 # LaTeX support?


@@ -201,24 +321,6 @@ Any setting for limiting how many kilobytes can be submitted via the "edit" form
 
 ----
 
 
 ----
 

-# Access Keys
-
-Would anyone else find this a valuable addition.  In oddmuse and instiki (the only other
-wiki engines I am currently using, the edit, home, and submit link tags have an
-accesskey attribute.  I find it nice not to have to resort to the mouse for those
-actions.  However, it may not be something everyone appreciates.  Any thoughts?
---[Mazirian](http://mazirian.com)
-
-> Maybe, although it would need to take the critisism at
-> <http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/forms/accesskey.html> into account.
-
->> Thank you for that link. Given that the edit link is the first thing you tab to
->> in the current layout, I guess it isn't all that necessary. I have had a 
->> a user complaint recently that Alt-e in oddmuse was overriding his access
->> to the browser menu.
-
-----
-

 # Editing the style sheet.
 
 It would be nice to be able to edit the stylesheet by means of the cgi.  Or is this possible?  I wasn't able to achieve it.
 # Editing the style sheet.
 
 It would be nice to be able to edit the stylesheet by means of the cgi.  Or is this possible?  I wasn't able to achieve it.


@@ -258,32 +360,6 @@ Clicking on an old "?" or going to a create link but new Markdown content exists
 
 ----
 
 
 ----
 

-# User database tools?
-
-Any tool to view user database?
-
-Any tool to edit the user database?
-
-> No, but it's fairly easy to write such tools in perl. For example, to
-> list all users in the user database:
-
-       joey@kodama:~/src/joeywiki/.ikiwiki>perl -le 'use Storable; my $userinfo=Storable::retrieve("userdb"); print $_ foreach keys %$userinfo'         
-       http://joey.kitenet.net/
-       foo
-
-> To list each user's email address:
-
-       joey@kodama:~/src/joeywiki/.ikiwiki>perl -le 'use Storable; my $userinfo=Storable::retrieve("userdb"); print $userinfo->{$_}->{email} foreach keys %$userinfo'
-       
-       joey@kitenet.net
-
-> Editing is simply a matter of changing values and calling Storable::store().
-> I've not written actual utilities to do this yet because I've only needed
-> to do it rarely, and the data I've wanted has been different each time.
-> --[[Joey]]
-
-----
-

 # Spaces in WikiLinks?
 
 Hello Joey,
 # Spaces in WikiLinks?
 
 Hello Joey,


@@ -294,7 +370,7 @@ aren't allowed in WikiLinks now?
 
 My best regards,
 
 
 My best regards,
 

---[[Paweł|ptecza]]
+--[[PaweB|ptecza]]

 
 > See [[bugs/Spaces_in_link_text_for_ikiwiki_links]]
 
 
 > See [[bugs/Spaces_in_link_text_for_ikiwiki_links]]
 


@@ -318,6 +394,9 @@ I'm playing around with various ways that I can use subversion with ikiwiki.
 > away without running the post-commit wrapper on commit, and all you lose
 > is the ability to send commit notification emails.
 
 > away without running the post-commit wrapper on commit, and all you lose
 > is the ability to send commit notification emails.
 

+> (And now that [[recentchanges]] includes rss, you can just subscribe to
+> that, no need to worry about commit notification emails anymore.)
+

 * Is it possible / sensible to have ikiwiki share a subversion repository with other data (either completely unrelated files or another ikiwiki instance)?  This works in part but again the post-commit hook seems problematic.
 
 --[[AdamShand]]
 * Is it possible / sensible to have ikiwiki share a subversion repository with other data (either completely unrelated files or another ikiwiki instance)?  This works in part but again the post-commit hook seems problematic.
 
 --[[AdamShand]]


@@ -326,3 +405,60 @@ I'm playing around with various ways that I can use subversion with ikiwiki.
 > in the same repo. If you have two wikis in one repository, you will need
 > to write a post-commit script that calls the post-commit wrappers for each
 > wiki.
 > in the same repo. If you have two wikis in one repository, you will need
 > to write a post-commit script that calls the post-commit wrappers for each
 > wiki.

+
+----
+
+# Regex for Valid Characters in Filenames
+
+I'm sure that this is documented somewhere but I've ransacked the wiki and I can't find it.  :-(  What are the allowed characters in an ikiwiki page name?  I'm writing a simple script to make updating my blog easier and need to filter invalid characters (so far I've found that # and , aren't allowed ;-)).  Thanks for any pointers.  -- [[AdamShand]]
+
+> The default `wiki_file_regexp` matches filenames containing only
+> `[-[:alnum:]_.:/+]`
+> 
+> The titlepage() function will convert freeform text to a valid
+> page name. See [[todo/should_use_a_standard_encoding_for_utf_chars_in_filenames]]
+> for an example. --[[Joey]]
+
+>> Perfect, thanks! 
+>>
+>> In the end I decided that I didn't need any special characters in filenames and replaced everything but alphanumeric characters with underscores.  In addition to replacing bad characters I also collapse multiple underscores into a single one, and strip off trailing and leading underscores to make tidy filenames.  If it's useful to anybody else here's a sed example:
+>>
+>>     # echo "++ Bad: ~@#$%^&*()_=}{[];,? Iki: +_-:./ Num: 65.5 ++" | sed -e 's/[^A-Za-z0-9_]/_/g' -e 's/__*/_/g' -e 's/^_//g' -e 's/_$//g'
+>>     Bad_Iki_Num_65_5
+>>
+>>--[[AdamShand]]
+
+# Upgrade steps from RecentChanges CGI to static page?
+
+Where are the upgrade steps for RecentChanges change from CGI to static feed?
+I run multiple ikiwiki-powered sites on multiple servers, but today I just upgraded one to 2.32.3.
+Please have a look at
+<http://bsdwiki.reedmedia.net/wiki/recentchanges.html>
+Any suggestions?
+
+> There are no upgrade steps required. It does look like you need to enable
+> the meta plugin to get a good recentchanges page though.. --[[Joey]]
+
+# News site where articles are submitted and then reviewed before posting?
+
+I am considering moving a news site to Ikiwiki. I am hoping that Ikiwiki has a feature where anonymous posters can submit a form that moderators can review and then accept for it to be posted on a news webpage (like front page of the website).
+
+> Well, you can have one blog that contains unreviewed articles, and
+> moderators can then add a tag that makes the article show up in the main
+> news feed. There's nothing stopping someone submitting an article
+> pre-tagged though. If you absolutely need to lock that down, you could
+> have one blog with unreviewed articles in one subdirectory, and reviewers
+> then move the file over to another subdirectory when they're ready to
+> publish it. (This second subdirectory would be locked to prevent others
+> from writing to it.) --[[Joey]]
+
+Also it would be good if the news page would keep maybe just the latest 10 entries with links to an archive that make it easy to browse to old entries by date. (Could have over a thousand news articles.)
+
+> The inline plugin allows setting up things like this.
+
+Plus users be able to post feedback to news items. If anonymous, they must be approved first. I'd prefer to not use normal "wiki" editor for feedback.
+
+Any thoughts or examples on this? Any links to examples of news sites or blogs with outside feedback using ikiwiki?
+
+Thanks --[[JeremyReed]]
+