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[git.ikiwiki.info.git] / doc / index / discussion.mdwn

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--- a/doc/index/discussion.mdwn
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@@ -72,123 +72,201 @@ easily, perl is possible (but I'm not strong in perl).
 > format. Another option would be writing a ikiwiki plugin to support the
 > TWiki format. --[[Joey]]
 
 > format. Another option would be writing a ikiwiki plugin to support the
 > TWiki format. --[[Joey]]
 

+> Jamey Sharp and I have a set of scripts in progress to convert other wikis to ikiwiki, including history, so that we can migrate a few of our wikis.  We already have support for migrating MoinMoin wikis to ikiwiki, including conversion of the entire history to Git.  We used this to convert the [XCB wiki](http://xcb.freedesktop.org/wiki/) to ikiwiki; until we finalize the conversion and put the new wiki in place of the old one, you can browse the converted result at <http://xcb.freedesktop.org/ikiwiki>.  We already plan to add support for TWiki (including history, since you can just run parsecvs on the TWiki RCS files to get Git), so that we can convert the [Portland State Aerospace Society wiki](http://psas.pdx.edu) (currently in Moin, but with much of its history in TWiki, and with many of its pages still in TWiki format using Jamey's TWiki format for MoinMoin).
+>
+> Our scripts convert by way of HTML, using portions of the source wiki's code to render as HTML (with some additional code to do things like translate MoinMoin's `\[[TableOfContents]]` to ikiwiki's `\[[toc ]]`), and then using a modified [[cpan HTML::WikiConverter]] to turn this into markdown and ikiwiki.  This produces quite satisfactory results, apart from things that don't have any markdown equivalent and thus remain HTML, such as tables and definition lists.  Conversion of the history occurs by first using another script we wrote to translate MoinMoin history to Git, then using our git-map script to map a transformation over the Git history.
+>
+> We will post the scripts as soon as we have them complete enough to convert our wikis.
+>
+> -- Josh Triplett
+
+>> Thanks for an excellent Xmas present, I will appreciate the additional 
+>> users this will help switch to ikiwiki! --[[Joey]]
+

 ----
 
 ----
 

-# OpenID
+# asciidoc or txt2tags ?
+
+Any plugins or support for using asciidoc or txt2tags as the wiki language and/or exporting to asciidoc or txt2tags?

 
 

-I just figured I'd edit something on the page with my OpenID, since you've implemented it! --*[Kyle](http://kitenet.net/~kyle/)*=
+> No, but it should be quite easy to write such a plugin. The otl plugin
+> is a good example of writing a formatting plugin that uses an external
+> conversion program, like asciidoc or txt2tags. --[[Joey]]

 
 

-> Kyle, If you like openid, I can switch your personal wiki over to use your openid. --[[Joey]]
+----

 
 

----- 
+# LaTeX support?

 
 

-# ACL
+Any plugins or support for exporting to LaTeX?
+(If not could use asciidoc or txt2tags mentioned above to generated LaTeX.)

 
 

-How about adding ACL? So that you can control which users are allowed
-to read, write certain pages. The moinmoin wiki has that, and it is
-something, that I think is very valuable. 
+> It's already [[been_requested|todo/latex]], although perhaps not
+> working the way you're thinking of. Noone is currently working on it.
+> --[[Joey]]

 
 

-> ikiwiki currently has only the most rudimentary access controls: pages
-> can be locked, or unlocked and only the admin can edit locked pages. That
-> could certianly be expanded on, although it's not an area that I have an
-> overwhelming desire to work on myself right now. Patches appreciated and
-> I'll be happy to point you in the right directions.. --[[Joey]]
+>> I did some tests with using Markdown and a customized HTML::Latex and html2latex
+>> and it appears it will work for me now. (I hope to use ikiwiki for many
+>> to collaborate on a printed book that will be generated at least once per day in PDF format.)
+>>
+>> --JeremyReed

 
 

->> I'm really curious how you'd suggest implementing ACLs on reading a page.
->> It seems to me the only way you could do it is .htaccess DenyAll or something,
->> and then route all page views through ikiwiki.cgi. Am I missing something?
->> --[[Ethan]]
+>>> Have a look at [pandoc](http://code.google.com/p/pandoc/).  It can make PDFs via pdflatex. --[[roktas]]

 
 

->>> Or you could just use apache or whatever and set up the access controls
->>> there. Of course, that wouldn't integrate very well with the wiki,
->>> unless perhaps you decided to use http basic authentication and the
->>> httpauth plugin for ikiwiki that integrates with that.. --[[Joey]]
+----

 
 

->>>> Which would rule out openid, or other fun forms of auth. And routing all access 
->>>> through the CGI sort of defeats the purpose of ikiwiki. --[[Ethan]]
+# Using with CVS?
+
+Any examples of using ikiwiki with cvs?
+
+> No, although the existing svn backend could fairly esily be modified into
+> a CVS backend, by someone who doesn't mind working with CVS. --[[Joey]]
+
+----
+
+# Show differences before saving page?
+
+It would be nice to be able to have a button to show "Differences" (or "Show Diff") when
+editing a page. Is that an option that can be enabled?
+
+> It's doable, it could even be done by a [[todo/plugin]], I think.
+> --[[Joey]]

 
 ----
 
 
 ----
 

-Some questions about the RecentChanges function. -- Ethan
+# Max submit size?
+
+Any setting for limiting how many kilobytes can be submitted via the "edit" form?
+-- [[JeremyReed]]
+
+> Not currently. Worried about abuse? --[[Joey]]
+
+>> I didn't want it abused accidently or with malice. I was thinking that Perl's CGI.pm would handle this, but I don't see that.
+>> I read that textarea max bytes may be 500 lines or 28000 characters or 30000 characters or 64kB. It seems like it
+>> varies and I didn't test myself, because I guess it may depend on different clients and different HTTP servers. 
+>> This could be checked using javascript on the client side (before submitting) and by checking size on server side (before saving). --[[JeremyReed]]

 
 

-> (Moved to [[todo/recentchanges]] --[[Joey]])
+>>> The absolute limit varies by browser. If there are web servers that
+>>> also limit it, I don't know of them. --[[Joey]]

 
 ----
 
 
 ----
 

-Also, I'd like to request another template parameter which is just
-$config{url}. That way you won't have to hard-code the URL of the wiki into
-the template. -- Ethan
+# Access Keys

 
 

-> That's already available in the BASEURL parameter. --[[Joey]]
+Would anyone else find this a valuable addition.  In oddmuse and instiki (the only other
+wiki engines I am currently using, the edit, home, and submit link tags have an
+accesskey attribute.  I find it nice not to have to resort to the mouse for those
+actions.  However, it may not be something everyone appreciates.  Any thoughts?
+--[Mazirian](http://mazirian.com)
+
+> Maybe, although it would need to take the critisism at
+> http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/forms/accesskey.html into account.
+
+>> Thank you for that link. Given that the edit link is the first thing you tab to
+>> in the current layout, I guess it isn't all that necessary. I have had a 
+>> a user complaint recently that Alt-e in oddmuse was overriding his access
+>> to the browser menu.

 
 ----
 
 
 ----
 

-# Canonical feed location?
+# Editing the style sheet.

 
 

-Any way to use `inline` but point the feed links to a different feed on the
-same site?  I have news in news/*, a news archive in news.mdwn, and the
-first few news items on index.mdwn, but I don't really want two separate
-feeds, one with all news and one with the latest few articles; I'd rather
-point the RSS feed links of both to the same feed.  (Which one, the one
-with all news or the one with the latest news only, I don't know yet.)
+It would be nice to be able to edit the stylesheet by means of the cgi.  Or is this possible?  I wasn't able to achieve it.
+Ok, that's my last 2 cents for a while. --[Mazirian](http://mazirian.com)

 
 

-> Not currently. It could be implemented, or you could just turn off the
-> rss feed for the index page, and manually put in a wikilink to the news
-> page and rss feed. --[[Joey]]
+> I don't support editing it, but if/when ikiwiki gets file upload support,
+> it'll be possible to upload a style sheet. (If .css is in the allowed
+> extensions list.. no idea how safe that would be, a style sheet is
+> probably a great place to put XSS attacks and evil javascript that would
+> be filtered out of any regular page in ikiwiki). --[[Joey]]

 
 

->> That wouldn't use the same style for the RSS and Atom links, and it
->> wouldn't embed the feed link into `<head>` so that browsers can automatically
->> find it.
+>> I hadn't thought of that at all.  It's a common feature and one I've
+>> relied on safely, because the wikis I am maintaining at the moment
+>> are all private and restricted to trusted users. Given that the whole
+>> point of ikiwiki is to be able to access and edit via the shell as
+>> well as the web, I suppose the features doesn't add a lot.  By the
+>> way, the w3m mode is brilliant.  I haven't tried it yet, but the idea
+>> is great.

 
 ----
 
 
 ----
 

-# asciidoc or txt2tags ?
+# Documentation for banning users?

 
 

-Any plugins or support for using asciidoc or txt2tags as the wiki language and/or exporting to asciidoc or txt2tags?
+The [[todo]] page says admins can ban users. Where is this documented? I search the source and found 
+set\_banned\_users() which led me to the CGI "preferences" form for the admin. Now logged in as an admin (as defined in my setup configuration),
+I see the field for this. But no details on how to use it. From the source it appears to be a space-delimited list of usernames. (I didn't test yet.)

 
 

-> No, but it should be quite easy to write such a plugin. The otl plugin
-> is a good example of writing a formatting plugin that uses an external
-> conversion program, like asciidoc or txt2tags. --[[Joey]]
+Can you please provide a [[/banned_users]] documentation about "banning" users function linked from the [[Features]] page and maybe [[security]] page and linked from the "preferences" for the admin?
+(I don't do this myself as I am unsure about this and still reading the code about banning users.)

 
 ----
 
 
 ----
 

-# LaTeX support?
+# Documentation for locking pages?

 
 

-Any plugins or support for exporting to LaTeX?
-(If not could use asciidoc or txt2tags mentioned above to generated LaTeX.)
+The [[features]] page, the [[todo]] page and the [[usage]] manual page say pages can be locked and only the admin can edit locked pages.
+Where is locking pages documented? ... A moment later, from searching source I found this is configured via the preferences for the admin
+and that links to [[pagespec]].

 
 

-> It's already [[been_requested|todo/latex]], although perhaps not
-> working the way you're thinking of. Noone is currently working on it.
-> --[[Joey]]
+Can you please provide a [[/page_locking]] doc about locking pages linked from the [[features]] page and elsewhere? And have that link to [[pagespec]]?
+(I don't do this myself as I am unsure about this and still reading the code about locking pages.)

 
 ----
 
 
 ----
 

-# Using with RCS?
+# RecentChanges should show path to wiki sub-pages?
+
+The RecentChanges only shows the final file name for the recently changes file,
+for example "discussion". It would be more useful to see "index/discussion"
+or the path to the sub-page. I think this is handled by the htmllink() routine.

 
 

-Any examples of using co(1), ci(1) and other RCS related tools with ikiwiki?
+>> IMHO it's a good idea and I like it. Often I can see changes in
+>> any discussion page, but I don't know without clicking the link
+>> what discussion was changed.

 
 

-> I don't belive that RCS offers enough SCM features to be useable as a
-> fullfledged backend to ikiwiki. For one thing, there's no way to have
-> hook scripts run when changes are ci'd, is there? So you'd have to ci and
-> then manually run ikiwiki. It should be possible to do an RCS backend
-> that supports web commits with ci, and history (parsing the rcs files by
-> hand?). If you're a masochist. :-) --[[Joey]]
+>> However, I can see one problem here. You can commit via command line
+>> changes in many pages. It will be displayed ugly then, because probably
+>> a width of the RecentChanges page will be greater then a width of
+>> user's browser. I hate these pages. So I propose to display a list of
+>> changed pages in a column, not in a row. --Pawel
+
+>>> Well, it's a simple [[patch|patchqueue/full_paths_in_recentchanges]].
+>>> For a limited time I have that patch running on this wiki. Undecided if
+>>> I like it or not; the width is not really a problem due to the design
+>>> of the recentchanges page, but all those paths do clutter up the page
+>>> somewhat. Comments? --[[Joey]]

 
 ----
 
 
 ----
 

-# Using with CVS?
+# Should not create an existing page

 
 

-Any examples of using ikiwiki with cvs?
+This might be a bug, but will discuss it here first.
+Clicking on an old "?" or going to a create link but new Markdown content exists, should not go into "create" mode, but should do a regular "edit".

 
 

-> No, although the existing svn backend could fairly esily be modified into
-> a CVS backend, by someone who doesn't mind working with CVS. --[[Joey]]
+> I belive that currently it does a redirect to the new static web page.
+> At least that's the intent of the code. --[[Joey]]
+
+>> Try at your site: `?page=discussion&from=index&do=create`
+>> It brings up an empty textarea to start a new webpage -- even though it already exists here. --reed
+
+>>> Ah, right. Notice that the resulting form allows saving the page as
+>>> discussion, or users/discussion, but not index/discussion, since this
+>>> page already exists. If all the pages existed, it would do the redirect
+>>> thing. --[[Joey]]

 
 ----
 
 
 ----
 

-# Show differences before saving page?
+# Refreshing RecentChanges page

 
 

-It would be nice to be able to have a button to show "Differences" (or "Show Diff") when
-editing a page. Is that an option that can be enabled?
+What do you think about refreshing RecentChanges page (via Meta Refresh Tag)?
+It can be useful for users like me which rather prefer watching the last changes
+in WWW browser tab than subscribing to page. --Pawel

 
 

-> It's doable, it could even be done by a [[todo/plugin]], I think.
+> Depends, if it were done the time period should be made configurable.
+> Unwanted server load due to refeshing could be a problem for some.

 > --[[Joey]]
 > --[[Joey]]

+
+>> Yes, it should be configurable by ikiwiki admin. I believe he's not
+>> stupid and he will not set too short refresh period to kill his server :)
+>> I propose to add `recentchanges_refresh` variable in ikiwiki setup
+>> to setting refresh period. If it's not defined, then ikiwiki doesn't put
+>> refresh meta tag into `recentchanges.tmpl`. Do you like it? ;) --Pawel
+
+>>> Seems reasonable --[[Joey]]